[Published at Film Inquiry] Robert Schwartzman follows up his impressive filmmaking debut, Dreamland, with the hilarious, touching, and wholly original romantic comedy, The Unicorn. The Rooney frontman and multi-hyphenate artist is the latest member of the prestigious Coppola family to step behind the camera and take up directing.

Growing up, his mother, Talia Shire (Rocky), was a prominent film actor, and his uncle, Francis Ford Coppola (The Godfather), one of the most iconic filmmakers since the inception of film. His brother, Jason Schwartzman (Rushmore), and cousin, Nicolas Cage(Leaving Las Vegas), are well-known actors, his cousin Sofia Coppola (Lost In Translation), an Oscar-winning filmmaker, his niece, Gia Coppola (Palo Alto), an acclaimed director, and his other brother, John Schwartzman (Seabiscuit), an Oscar-nominated cinematographer. Being around such artistic individuals his entire life, it’s no surprise that Schwartzman possesses an abundance of talent in his own right.

Schwartzman‘s sophomoric feature film follows Cal (Nicholas Rutherford) and Mal (Lauren Lapkus), indefinitely engaged, who embark upon a journey to have a threesome, excavating revealing moments about their relationship along the way. The Unicorn features an all-star supporting cast of comedic actors and A-list stars, including Beck Bennett,  Kyle Mooney, Beverly D’Angelo, John Kapelos, Lucy Hale, and Dree Hemingway.

Leading up to The Unicorn‘s west coast premiere at 7 PM on January 30, 2019 at the 21st San Francisco Independent Film Festival and its theatrical release on February 1, 2019, I had a chance to speak at length with Schwartzman about his new film. We discussed how he crafts a story, the inspiration behind The Unicorn, the casting process, improvising with comedic cast, growing up as a Coppola, and more!

I really admire artists who seemingly have a mastery over their creative visions. You’ve displayed that with Dreamland and The Unicorn already.

Robert Schwartzman: Thank you very much.  I really appreciate that. That’s awesome. Thank you for watching Dreamland. As you know, it always means a lot when you make something and then you get to share it. And people actually watch it. It’s nice [laughter]. That’s kind of why it’s being made. Nice to be able to be at a point where we can, share it, send links out and, and it’s gonna be available in a few weeks, which is great.

Yeah. That’s the dream. Visually, I noticed some similar aesthetics between Dreamlandand The Unicorn through various neon and pastel lighting schemes, among other visual and narrative aspects. Who do you draw inspiration from as a filmmaker?

Robert Schwartzman: That’s a great question. For me, it’s not just specific, like, I like X person’s movies or I love this cinematographer. It’s more about I really gravitate towards how a movie looks in connection to the story that it’s telling. Because it’s not like if you do X, Y, and Z, that you will feel X, Y, and Z. I don’t think you could apply a formula or a science to how the creative individual connects. There are things that I don’t love visually. I know what I don’t like, visually, so I guess I start with trying to eliminate the things that I’m not into.

Dreamland was kinda mixed genre. It had moments of heavier, more dramatic moments, or dark comedy, you might say. And then in this movie, we were dealing with a lot of, comedic talent. People from the world of a Saturday Night Live, or writers who do more broad comedy or improv actors who do more comedy, specifically.

We went into this movie wanting to make a comedy. That was the goal. But part of my issue with comedy, visually, is that sometimes they just don’t have any beauty, or elegance, or an identity, visually. Sometimes, the genre of comedies, for whatever reason, and everyone has their own reasons, things are very lit, you see everything, there’s no debts. Or there’s no sense of space sometimes in a lot of comedies.

And that’s just maybe because [with] studio comedy, they wanna see everything. They want to see all the actors. They want everyone closer. They want everything lit. A lot of the comedies I grew up watching, like a great John Hughes, ’80s iconic comedy, I just loved the way they looked as a whole. They had a lot of heart. They were oozing with identity. Each character has such a specific feel and look, and all the parts together gave it a certain vibe. And that’s what I like with certain songs. It’s just being able to walk away and feel like I’m connected to this world that I just was a part of for a minute.

Sometimes, if there’s really no approach to the visual and it’s just, like, “Yeah. Whatever,” like, “Put the camera here, he’s gonna make a lot of jokes and we’ll laugh.” If it’s kind of blocky and not with intention of visual storytelling, sometimes I don’t think it satisfies myself personally with the comedies I love (finding a heart and elegance). For me, it’s more about how do we tell this story? What does the story want? What does the story wanna look like? And how do we enhance this experience for the viewer from every perspective: music, actor, wardrobe, location? How does everything work together?

That’s what’s on my mind as we’re going into prep and as we’re on set. Speaking of the visual, I have sense going in how I wanna shoot a movie and how I wanna cut a movie. So, I’m kind of working backwards from how I’m assembling a movie while we’re seeing it. Everything is very surgical in its approach in terms of how I’m telling the story in every scene. And then, we’re kind of going in specifically with a certain intention, visually, to help support that.

Both of your films deal with themes of sexual awakenings through self discovery through very different stories. Whereas doing Dreamland is a coming of age film, The Unicorn is about a couple falling in love again and really getting to know each other. What was the inspiration behind The Unicorn?

Robert Schwartzman: It all starts working its way back from the way I was of budgeting, and then trying to pull off this type of budget. This type of storytelling to me is like a puzzle. I was like, “Okay. We’re gonna tell this story. How are we gonna tell the story? What’s the story that we can achieve? What’s something that we have enough tools and enough resources to tell this story?” And that’s where I kind of start. When I had this idea for The Unicorn, it was based on meeting a, a girl who said she was a unicorn when I was at a bar with my wife.

I’d never heard the term before. And then in having a laugh with her and my wife, she gave us her number. Basically, we walked home and laughed and we’re like, “That was so bizarre.” I’m like, “I’ve never heard of a unicorn. What is that?” And then we were kinda joking, “Should we call her?” We were kind of messing around together.

That’s not an encounter we’ve had as far as going through with it. But it made me think, “That’s such a great jumping off point for a story.” A couple wondering how to have this experience, and then in that, you keep peeling back and you find more layers to it. So, we’re supporting that type of story. From there, I basically dove deeper into how do we shape these characters? How about the couples been engaged for a long time, and they’re not getting married. And something’s holding them back and they get re-engaged, and that’s where we start the story.

And they’re off at their parents’ renewing of the vows. So, they’re around love and they’re around a wedding. They’re feeling uncomfortable because they’re kind of the elephant in the room of, “When are they gonna get married?” And then her sister’s having twins and everything’s perfect, seemingly. So, they just feel more and more alone in this experience, which kick starts the temptation of, “Let’s not be ourselves tonight. Let’s be other people. Let’s try this thing.” They’re both trying to get themselves pumped up, work together as a team to have this experience.

I just felt like I could imagine the story and those uncomfortable moments. And I could imagine these characters coming in, like the Lucy Hale character and the Beck[Bennett] character, and the Dree [Hemingway] character. They try to meet a Goldilocks and the three bears type experience, where each experience is either too hot, or too cold, or just right. It just kind of evolves from there. But the jumping off plan was actually meeting the unicorn and being curious about what that even meant.

Wow [laughter]. That’s fascinating, and a hilarious story with your wife. You had a chance to flex your acting chops in The Unicorn. You did an excellent job as the Uber driver.

Robert Schwartzman: Thank you. It’s so funny to even just be in the movie. When I watched the movie, that scene happens and there’s a chuckle in the audience, more, I think, just because they’re in their car having a raunchy conversation with some guy driving them who can hear every word. The reveal is funny, not just because I get to play that role, but it’s just a funny moment. It was fun to be in it. I was nervous because I’ve never been on camera and been able to direct something and be in a movie. Even just that one little moment was so challenging. I always think about actor-directors and then I’m like, “How do they do this?” They must have a whole team around them that they can rely on.

Oh yeah, they must. You never neglect your secondary characters, in your storytelling. They’re always fully flushed out, well-developed, and occupied by really talented actors. Did you have an idea of who you wanted to be attached to the project when it lifted off the ground?

Robert Schwartzman: Yeah. There’s certain energy going into it, but I think we were able to maintain the spirit of yes; the spirit of let’s go. “Let’s not be precious and overthink this into a box to where we never make any decisions. We had the people we wanted and we just went for it. And we were lucky that they were willing. In casting Mal, Lauren Lapkus wasn’t someone I knew, or no one on set knew her. So, She was new to the circle. We went out to her. Before she came on, we discussed different ways to cast. And so, with that role, it took a minute to find the right harmony with Lauren coming in.

The Jesse character played by Lucy Hale – she had read for Dreamland. I really enjoyed meeting her and I thought she did a really good job. And we stayed in touch. And then, when we were putting the story together, I loosely pitched her on The Unicorn before the script was done. And I was like, “Look, I’m gonna send you the script. But I just want you to know, ‘here’s what we’re doing.’” And she really liked what she heard in that coffee pitch, 30-minute meeting. She was down. She was open. She wanted to hear about it. She was available. We were able to get her for a few days of that shoot for those scenes.

And then Beck Bennett had worked with Nick Rutherford on the Good Neighbor comedy team. So, Kyle Mooney, and Beck Bennett, and Nick were a part of a comedy group called Good Neighbor before they went to SNL. And I was a fan of Good Neighbor. I always loved their comedy. So, I went to Nick and approached him with the story. We basically started drafting it together. But I was hoping all along we were gonna be able to get Beck, because we kind of wrote that character for Beck. We were like, “What if they were to go to a strip club and meet a stripper who’s Australian.” And he was gonna be Australian at one point.

And then Dree Hemingway I met on a different production. And we stayed in touch and then we were like, “Oh my God. She’d be perfect for April,” who they meet at the end. And Beverly D’Angelo, I met from Dreamland. And John Kapelos, I love from all those classic ’80s films that he was in. And I met him through somebody. And they were like, “Hey, you’re making a movie. You should meet John.” And we clicked in a coffee meeting, and then we just offered him the role.

So, it was very much like, “Hey, you’d be great. Let’s do it.” And they were like, “Yeah. Let’s do it.” But we were very, again, laser pointer-y about who we wanted. It was very clear what the role was gonna be. In this movie, clearly, it’s Cal and Mal who carry the movie. You’re along for their roller coaster of a ride. And that’s the most delicate duo. And we were so lucky with Lauren because she’s so funny, and smart, and clever, and quick on her feet. She works so well with Nick. We didn’t even rehearse together, and they started on day one. And they had a real chemistry, and that’s so satisfying to have that, obviously.

My goal is always to make every character the best we can be. How can we go for it on every level? So, when we go out to people, we’re very targeted. And with an indie, you gotta really beg people to work with you and do it. No one’s getting paid. No one’s doing it for the money. You gotta hope that they like the material and they like the people involved enough to say yes. And trust. They have to trust that the movie is gonna be something they even are happy to be associated to. Because probably the scary thing for actors is [when] you show up to a set and work for a few days, and then you leave and you totally don’t connect to what you worked on. That’s probably the worst.

A lot of these actors, as you mentioned, come from the comedy world. Whether it be stand-up, improv, or sketch comedy. Did you play around with that and allow for any improvisation, or did you stick to the script?

Robert Schwartzman: Yeah. And had a lot of improv. The script was really solid. It came together really quickly. We did a good job of heavily outlining the role with every beat and every actor to the point where, when we had the first draft, it was very close to what we wanted. I mean, certain things weren’t written jokey. It’s important to me that you balance the jokes and the heart. That you don’t sacrifice the love and the reality of the situation for a laugh. It’s a constant balance. And usually when we edit, you kinda find that balance. But we got to play around a lot. Some of the actors weren’t from comedy, or aren’t known as comedic actors. Not Lucy and not Dree. But they were great. Regardless of their background, they came in and they were right on. They were spot on with their delivery and their ideas. And they were willing to play around.

If you’re not from a comedy background, the next best thing is that you’re open-minded with what we’re doing. You’re at least willing to try. Because we’re throwing lines at people. We’re rolling. We’re doing a lot of series. So, we’re on Lucy. It’s a close up. “Hey, say this. Day that. Try this. Try that.” And she’s doing it. She’s not like, “No. I wouldn’t say that.” She’s like, “Okay.” And that helps. And then with Lauren and Nick, they’re familiar with the material. They’re very dialed in, but they can pivot so quickly and come up with so many funny things that they edit together to balance storytelling and comedy.

Part of the whole strategy was having people with comedy backgrounds so we could improvise a lot. And originally, we weren’t going to even have a script. We were just gonna shoot the movie as an outline. But we started to get so deep into it that we were like, “No, there’s gonna be a script.” And it’s hard to cast a movie with just an outline. Most people wanna read something or else they don’t even know what you’re doing. So, we had to have a draft that we could take out and give to agents and get coverage on it. Because every-everyone else is already protected in the industry. No one’s gonna put their actor in something that they don’t even know what the asset is.

Yeah. That, that makes sense. Beverly D’Angelo, has been a scene-stealer in both of your films. Are you gonna try to find a way to put her in all your films now?

Robert Schwartzman: I want to. The other actor who’s in this and Dreamland is Jeff Barry. He’s not a name that you hear a lot. He’s Old Man Henry.He plays Henry, the guy who marries them. He was in Dreamland. He played the piano, the guy that had a heart attack who’s the original piano bar pianist. That guy is amazing. He’s a legendary songwriter. He wrote “Be My Baby” and “Chapel of Love” and “Da Do Run, Run,” “River Deep Mountain High,” “I Can Hear Music,” He was one of the Brill Building writers back in the old days in the ’60s. And he’s a hall of fame songwriter. But I’ve written music with him. And then I was like, “Jeff, you wanna be in this movie I’m making?” And he’s like, “Sure. I’ve never acted. Let’s do it.”

He was so down to act that he was in both movies, and he’s so great in them. I would love to work with him on everything. It’s hard. I don’t know if the next movie is gonna have anyone in the movie that would be appropriate for Beverly or Jeff. But [I’m] definitely creating that circle of talent that you bring in a lot. I like that. I always admire when filmmakers have  their cast that they could go back to. I think as much as I can,I wanna do that.

Jeff was hilarious in The Unicorn. And he also had one of the most heartwarming scenes in the film too.

Robert Schwartzman: Yeah. He really did bring that to the movie. He did a really good job.

You’re one of the newest members of the Coppola family to step behind the camera, step behind the camera. Is being a multi-hyphenate in the arts a prerequisite to being a Coppola?

Robert Schwartzman: I feel like growing up around movies, or on set, or the art of storytelling, like, I was exposed to that environment growing up. I always admired filmmakers, and writers, and storytellers. And that went into music for me as well because I grew up with musicians in the family too, so I was around a lot of music. And a lot of music movies, and music in movies. So, like, I think that all that is storytelling or creating. Just basically creating things. That’s how I view it. And I think when it comes to a family business or family industry, I don’t think it’s like a shocker when kids grow up in an environment – like when you have a family of circus performers, they typically grow up in a circus environment and end up being jugglers or trapeze artists or something. If you grew up with a family of writers or a family of plumbers, you might take over the family plumbing business. That’s just human nature. It’s the village mentality.

I just respect what it takes to make things and work with a crew, and a cast. And growing up, my mom [Talia Shire] was an actress. I grew up with a mom who was very dramatic and I would have to talk to her a lot about scenes or run lines with her, talk about movies and dissect the story. That was just part of my childhood. Not necessarily  acting, but just wanting to make movies was always what I wanted to do. And I always had a camera and I was always shooting stuff growing up. And then I ended up playing guitar and piano and going like, “Oh my God. I wanna write songs and tell stories through music.” And eventually, I’m like, “I wanna make movies.” So, I kinda bounced around in the creative community.

At the end of the day, it’s very cool and I appreciate having family members who work also in this industry in different aspects. My brother, John Schwartzman, shot The Unicorn. And he’s an incredible DP. I learned a lot just being around him my whole life. He’s worked on bigger studio movies, but he was able to give us some time and make an indie. He was great. And he moves so fast. We weren’t brothers on set, we were colleagues. That’s someone who’s behind the camera. He’s not a director. He’s not an actor. But he’s a DP. And there’s so much to learn from everyone at every level in every aspect of the job. It’s just really cool to be able to get feedback on a cut or ask a question about this. It’s nice when you have that relationship with people, friends or family, who you admire.

That’s a great way to put it. All art is a form of storytelling. You provided a few songs for the soundtrack as well. Were these songs you’d written already? I know a few of them were by Rooney. But did you write any specifically for The Unicorn?

Robert Schwartzman: Yeah. One of them I wrote brand new for The Unicorn, It’s called “Time and Time Again.” And it plays twice. It plays as an instrumental piece the morning after Cal and Mal had their night. The next morning they’re driving back to the wedding house. And there’s a song playing with a certain gentle feel sound, and that’s a song I wrote for the movie. And that song comes back at the end during the credits. And you hear the vocal. I put a vocal to it, so that was new. And that’s gonna come out on the soundtrack.

I did a cover song with this band called Phony Ppl. And they are a, let’s say funk, soul, hip-hop band from New York. And they’re really cool. Really great guys. We did a cover of “1-2-3.” The original song is playing when mom and dad are dancing on the dance floor with their third. That’s a classic kinda song by a guy name Len Barry. “1-2-3.” When Cal and Mal are in the car, the last song you hear into the closing credits is a cover song. So, those are two originals for the movie. And then some of the other songs are songs I play with my band Rooney in the past.

I love music so much. And when I think about movies and stories, I think about music. So, if I can write something that I’m hearing for it, it’s great to be able to provide that. And it’s a great way to also motivate new songwriting. It pushes me as a songwriter to approach how I’m writing too.

There’s this one quote I love so much from The Unicorn. “A man’s ego is a powerful, powerful piece of shit. It can destroy a lot of things. It is a major league buzzkill. I want you to learn how to accept, forgive, and move on. And that’s the key to happiness.” [laughter].

Robert Schwartzman: John [Kapelos] came up with that. The actor who plays the dad.

It’s really aligned with the themes of redefining what it means to be a man and putting aside one’s ego for forgiveness, which you’ve tackled before. Of your two features, which film is, is most personal to you?

Robert Schwartzman: I wouldn’t say one is more personal over the other. These are stories that I got to be a part of the writing process, the creation of them. And so, they’re originals. Each movie I’ve worked on has a piece of me and a piece of fantasy. It’s fiction and non-fiction. I pull from moments and I pull from things that I’ve heard from other people, other friends, for the little droplets and characters, moments, stories, ideas, and they all merge together. There’s a lot of me as far as the emotional hooks. I’m just really sensitive to wanting to tell stories with characters that you feel for or you fall into their world. Just being a part of this journey is so important to me.

I’m more interested in relationships. I find relationships to be fascinating. I always like talking to people about their relationships and love life. But people are so complicated and sometimes the most simple things become so blown out of proportion. Sometimes things that seems so meaningless on the outside are so complicated for other people. I’m drawn to that. Those are the things that I feel, too, in my life. You know what I mean? So, it’s not a direct, “This is a story about my life.” It’s more about– these are things that I’ve either felt, seen, experienced, and worked their way into storytelling.

Do you consider yourself more of a musician or a filmmaker now? Or, do you try not categorize yourself?

Robert Schwartzman: In the movie, Beck’s character is always like, “Why do you have to put a label on everything?” That comes up a lot. I still get to play music, and tour, and do shows, but, specifically, time-wise, I spent so many years of my life touring and putting records out as a full-time profession. And I feel like I’ve had other passions or goals in my life, creatively, that I had to put on hold, let’s say.

In these recent years, I’ve been able to be more specific about how I spend my time on each project. I’m still interested in all these creative outlets. It’s more about just time management and wanting to put more time into filmmaking. So, I’m very excited that I get to be able to work on these feature films. I always get excited to shoot.

Speaking of which, do you have an idea of what your next project might be?

Robert Schwartzman: Yeah. I’m starting to work on a new film. I’m like eager to jump into it. But I’m starting to think about how to approach the next film and what I wanna shoot. It’s definitely on my mind right now. We shot The Unicorn a year and a half ago, which is very common. You shoot a movie and then you gotta wait for a festival, then you gotta wait for a buyer, and then you gotta plan the release. Sometimes you  sit on a finished movie for a while. Now, we’re back in “release The Unicorn” mode. [In] my mind, I’m drifting into other projects now. I still wanna be as supportive and active with The Unicorn because it’s just coming out now so. But I’m very excited to start a new project.

Robert, I can’t thank you enough for taking the time out of our day to chat about your films.

Robert Schwartzman: I appreciate it. Thank you for your time and your feedback. It’s awesome. Thanks for talking about it. I’m excited to come to San Francisco, too. I’m always so grateful when a film festival invites the movie. It feels really good when someone wants to play your movie. I’m gonna come up there on the 30th for the screening.

Film Inquiry would like to thank Robert Schwartzman for his time and insight.

The Unicorn premieres on opening night of the 21st San Francisco Independent Film Festival on January 30, 2019. The film hits theaters on February 1, 2019, and VOD on February 5, 2019.

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